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Parenting With A Purpose
Donna Janel Williams, a Chester native is on a mission to bring back the responsibility, nobility, and beauty back to parenting. Parenting With A Purpose show aims to reach, teach and propel single mom, single dads, married, divorced, adopted, and foster parents all over the world with engaging conversations to help parents raise up successful leaders. Donna Janel believes parents are the bows and children are the arrows and they will land in the direction we aim them.
Parenting With A Purpose
Laying Foundations for Flourishing The Shift from Hurt to Healing
Join me, Donna Janel, as I team up with the insightful Rhonda Santos to peel back the layers on a topic that's both personal and universal – healing from the scars of narcissistic abuse and codependency. Celebrating a pivotal moment in my own journey towards becoming a registered nurse, we draw parallels between the transformation of graduates embarking on new beginnings and our own steps towards fostering growth within our families. We tackle the complex web of emotions that often intertwine within our relationships, discussing how our unhealed wounds from the past can lead us down a path of seeking drama as a stand-in for intimacy, and the impact this has on nurturing our children.
As we chart the course of our conversation, we share stories close to our hearts, revealing the deep-seated roots of codependency that can ensnare those of us in the helping professions. We open up about the magnetic pull towards trying to 'fix' our partners, dissecting how this often masks a need for validation and caretaking. The discussion takes a turn towards self-discovery as we consider the importance of setting boundaries, not just for our own well-being but as a beacon for our children to follow. We're reminded that the journey of healing isn't just for us; it's a legacy we impart to our kids, replacing cycles of hurt with patterns of healthy, self-affirming love.
Our dialogue ventures beyond the personal, considering how the post-pandemic world has reshaped our approach to dating and relationships. We celebrate personal victories, like the nearing end of Rhonda's doctoral program, and the joys of newfound financial independence – all milestones marking the progress on our paths. This episode is a testament to the courage it takes to confront our traumas, to the transformative power of education, and to the resilience that comes with learning to love ourselves fully. Listen as we affirm that each step we take is one towards a future where our children can thrive, unencumbered by the burdens of our past.
Parents are the Bows and Children are the Arrows they will land wherever we aim them eventually!
Outro Music. Thank you, bye, thank you, hey everybody. Welcome to Parenting with a Purpose. I am your host, donna Janelle. We are back here weekly. I'm laughing y'all, because if y'all can see these balloons here, I am being overtaken by balloons. I am finishing my last exam tomorrow and I'll be graduating as a registered nurse, so my guest tonight, rhonda Santos, decides to bring all these balloons and celebrate tonight. So that's why I'm laughing. It's not enough One part. I'm laughing because like it's hilarious.
Speaker 1:But anyway, you know, we want to bring back the responsibility, nobility and beauty back into parenting, and there's a lot going on in parenting right now. There's a lot of things I've seen, you know. As you know, a couple weeks ago I had Pam on the show. We were talking about so many different things as it relates to parenting Parents not really having a village or maybe burning their village. You know the situation with a young lady on her cruise and left two of her children, six and eight years old, home watching themselves. She was actually parenting through a camera while she was at sea. I think Tubi's going to have a movie Right, tooby's always having a movie, I think it's going to be Perrington at sea or something like that, anyway. So we had a conversation Tonight, though we're going to continue the conversation. We have Ronda Santos back again. She is not. This is not the first time she's been on the show. She's back again.
Speaker 1:And we're going to continue the conversation. Um, we got kind of deep last time, we didn't have enough time. We didn't have enough time but there are so many different things we want to talk about and hit tonight because I think, um a lot of times, as as I said before, that if we don't heal our wounds, we will continue to bleed over our children. So a lot of things that we're going to be talking to tonight is just talking about how we can heal from a lot of situations that that has happened to us and how we don't bleed our children, so then our children don't begin to bleed on other people. You know the cycle goes on. So welcome back. Here we go.
Speaker 2:You know, this is my favorite time of the year because my students are graduating and I just, I'm, I just it's so exciting. They someone said to me. One of the students said to me a couple weeks ago Ms Rhonda, I think you're more hype than we are sometimes and I said you guys don't understand like the educators understand it when you as an instructor, as an educator, when you see your student realize that light bulb moment and they realize their own greatness, like there's just nothing like it and and to just see them like stepping into their purpose, is so exciting. So, yeah, thanks for having me back. We touched on what we were doing well, let's remind the people who you are.
Speaker 2:Yes, my name is Rhonda Santos. Um, I am a registered nurse. I have a master's in nursing with a specialization in healthcare informatics. I'm currently a nurse educator. I have over 200 students right now, literally, and I'm loving every minute of it. Though, as far as my informatics background, clinical nurse informaticist is basically just a fancy way of saying that we are nurses who assist research and development teams, it teams, with developing electronic health records. So I do do that remotely, but I can't sit in front of the computer for eight hours six hours.
Speaker 2:so yeah, educating future generation nurses is my passion, and so yeah. Yes welcome back. I'm excited to be back, yep.
Speaker 1:All right, so we're going to get into it. Yeah, Because we'd be running out of time. Yeah, because we'd run out of time. We'd run out of time.
Speaker 2:I looked at when I watched our session last time. There were a couple things that I think a couple places you were trying to go, but I think a couple of places you were trying to go, but I think I had lost you and what we were talking about was narcissistic abuse, right, and we were talking about how those patterns in childhood, basically how they affect us and how we carry that into adulthood. Basically, if we're not trying to heal, if we don't know that there's an issue and we're trying to heal and one of the things you mentioned that was really key. You said oftentimes when that happens we going into adulthood, when we get into these dysfunctional relationships, what ends up happening is we think that when someone is obsessive about us, like these balloons.
Speaker 1:Yes, okay, like these balloons. You can't go anywhere.
Speaker 2:I want to know your every move right yeah, and that's where you were going with that and then. But where I was, where I was trying to expand on that is you said, basically, we think that that is a good thing, right? Right, because we want the nurturing you know what we were missing we're looking for in our relationship, right? So we think that it's okay, um, and that it means, oh, they love us. But really and truly that's an individual that has some serious, um, insecurities and a major inferiority complex, and what can happen is those are people that will hurt you. You know your stalkers. But because in childhood we were also surrounded by so much dysfunction and so much toxicity, that became intimacy to us, and so we look for that in relationships, right, we look for that drama and we don't even realize it, because a lot of times it is happening below the veil of consciousness, but we're drawn, you know, to drama right, if it ain't nothing popping, what's going?
Speaker 2:on.
Speaker 1:You start thinking like what's wrong with you, because ain't nothing popping exactly this relationship is too peaceful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know why? You know because you're looking, you're, yeah, so that's how we get pulled in. But we just had started touching on codependency, which is definitely um a byproduct of of being a victim of narcissistic abuse, essentially yeah because that codependent person is that. And the first time I ever heard about codependency. I was in LPN school and I had I you know we had.
Speaker 2:We had great professors, and my professor said to the class during a psych psych lecture, and she said I want to discuss codependency with you guys. She said, because as nurses, as nursing students, you know you're drawn oftentimes, you know, to these helping professions. If there's, you know, some codependent tendencies or traits under the surface, and she spoke with us at great length about that and explained it. And I remember thinking to myself that sounds like me Right, right, right. And so me, the inquiring mind that I've always been like I want to know, I want to find out more. You know I lived in the self-help section in the bookstore, like I knew, I had this toxic family dynamic.
Speaker 2:I didn't exactly know what it was called, but I knew that there was a problem. But I remember being in that section in the bookstore and asking where can I find this book? Because the book that was recommended to me by my professor was um codependent no more by melody beady, one of the best books on codependency. And so it was in the addiction section of the bookstore and I said I'm not an addict, right, why is this? You know I did, but it's an addiction. Yeah, it is, because it is a um excessive psychological need to um be a people pleaser, basically right to um help others, to save others, to control others really is what's happening below the veil of consciousness.
Speaker 2:You want to control this person. You feel like you can make them better, you can fix them, and that comes from that childhood neglect being told you're bad, being told you're no good, you're nothing, you're not going to be anything, you're not going to amount to anything that narrative. So all your life, all your relationships, you become this person who's always giving too much of yourself right and never really getting anything back. And I was um, I would say for sure, for many, many years. Definitely, my family ran my pockets to the advantage of my of my codependency because I just showed up for everybody, financially, physically, emotionally.
Speaker 2:I had no boundaries.
Speaker 1:But that's interesting, like the way that you're breaking it down, what you're saying, because when I think about parenting right, when. I think about people who, individuals who had such a lot growing up not just, like you know, I'm not talking about food, clothes and shelter, all those things, but emotional right and Then you become a parent. You become this micromanager parent, this parent who really I've experienced that myself, where I felt like I needed to be everything to my kids.
Speaker 2:You become a superhero pretty much.
Speaker 1:You begin to micromanage everything in their life instead of allowing them to grow for their own independence and things like that. But you feel like you just have to be the person to be in all to all to your children, and that's based on for me, it was based on the fact that I didn't have the parents that I always wanted. Basically, I didn't have, didn't grow up with like for me at the time, didn't realize the, the love and the nurturing, the, the show up at the school to do all these things that what parent does?
Speaker 2:so we overcompensate that. Yeah, that's what happens.
Speaker 1:Yes, we do when we get into parenting, because you know, you heard you ever hear you. I don't know if you experienced it before, but I want to give my kids everything that my parents didn't give to me. Yes, and that's not good. That's not good or I'm not going to be anything like my parents and you turn to be the total opposite of parents. But you still jacked up because, like it wasn't like your parents was the worst thing since, like spread, but it's just the things that was happening you didn't like.
Speaker 2:So then you take on these other behaviors and you become addicted to people pleasing yeah, because you need to feel validated, you need to feel and one of the things that we didn't really have a whole lot of time to touch on but, um, I really just kind of want to put out there, if you again, a disclaimer I'm not a minister, I am not a content creator, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, um and for sure, if anything, you know any of the mental health disorders we're discussing today.
Speaker 2:If it hits home, by all means seek, you know, see, a professional um, because I am not qualified to diagnose um in. You know, we don't diagnose Um. But again, like speaking from experience, what ends up happening is, if you don't, if you, you'll recognize. You know, even if you don't know, that it's a toxic family of origin, right, you know there's a problem. You know something. You don't know that it's a toxic family of origin, right, you know there's a problem.
Speaker 2:You know something's wrong right it is so important that you get out of that circle. You get out, you break away and you expand your horizons and you find a tribe, basically you know, because they will mirror back to you who you really are, because when you're in this toxic family dynamic, you're growing up around these people that have a benchmark for you. First of all and we talked about that a little bit that benchmark. You hear people say if you have a business and you start a business, it's better to do business with people you don't know than it is to do business with family, right, right, and really what I have found is that's because in your toxic family of origin and it specifically is a toxic family of origin, because every family is not that way- Okay, so I'm not generalizing.
Speaker 2:But in that toxic family of origin, they have a benchmark for you, okay, and so it's like you are here and you're not supposed to exceed beyond that. This is your role in the family and usually you know if you're the codependent person, you're usually the scapegoat. So everything that happens everything that happens is your fault, basically, and you feel that way as a codependent person. I mean literally you would believe that you're responsible for world hunger right like everybody that has a problem, it's your fault and you have to.
Speaker 2:Everybody that has a problem, it's your responsibility to fix it, because you become a superhero because subconsciously you think and again, you may not be thinking it in your conscious mind, but everything you're doing is coming from a place of well, maybe if I fix this problem or if I help this person with their rent or their car payment or their whatever they need for their kids, whatever it is that essentially they will love me back. Right, they will love me back and they will see my value that part, that part okay yeah, and that just reinforces that whole cycle.
Speaker 2:And narcissists are attracted to people with codependent. They're like magnets and it's because we're more likely to stroke their ego, because, again, the people pleasing right right now it's making sense.
Speaker 1:We're fixers.
Speaker 2:so it's like you know they're attracted to us and we're. We can easily be drawn in by that because we think that, oh, they want to listen to us. This is someone who thinks that, yeah, so it becomes this very toxic dynamic that can easily extend well into adulthood. And again, like we talked about before, just keep you from your purpose, because as long as you have this low sense of self-worth right and you're not able to level in yourself the way you need to level in yourself, um, and and feel like you're important enough to set boundaries, to have boundaries.
Speaker 2:No, is a complete sentence right?
Speaker 1:I think that's so hard when it comes like this. That's why it's so important for us to heal, because we literally just start spilling all that over on our kids and our family members, our nieces, like anybody who comes in contact. It's almost like an affection Right, Like it's really like I just think about. We just had a pandemic Right and once you you know you're around somebody with, with covid.
Speaker 1:Now they got in it and just spreads like that it does, yeah, it does if we don't take a hold of it, of our thought patterns and understanding really who we are. We literally just going around affecting everybody else because the fact that we weren't able to heal from whatever disease process or whatever it is psychologically that was upon us and now we literally just we're all just giving it out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I don't know, had had I if I didn't have an instructor that actually went there and talked about it? You know, and she came from a place of. I want to really, you know, take time to talk about codependency, because oftentimes you know people that are attracted to nursing professions. Helping professions oftentimes have codependent tendencies, codependent traits. You can very easily end up with the alcoholic partner or the partner that's an addict and now you're going to fix their. Their addiction becomes your problem.
Speaker 1:That is so important. You said that because a lot of times, like we, we try to figure out why. How do we end up in these? Same type of relationships over and over again and um and you and then you.
Speaker 2:A lot of times you begin to question stuff because if you don't have somebody that you need to fix, I can look back on my relationships and anybody that didn't like the men in my life that were good for me, I didn't want Wow Because there was no drama. Yeah, there was no drama. I was used to all the drama and the things that I saw growing up so that was intimacy to me. So if I wasn't in a relationship that had drama there was, I didn't feel loved Wow.
Speaker 2:I didn't feel like it was yeah, that was what I was attracted to, and so I was constantly, you know, ending up in relationships with people with narcissistic personality disorder, because those are the people that were attracted to me. They saw that I was an empath, you know, that I was a people pleaser. You know, um, it's like we have this neon sign, you know, flashing over our head, you know, um. So, yeah, it was the, it was the neediness, and what was always odd to me, though, is I was always good alone, though you know that's always been. I was on my own, basically at like 16. So I was always good on my own, like. I always enjoyed my own space. It wasn't like I necessarily needed someone in my space all the time, but I definitely. If I was in love with someone you know, or love someone, I definitely felt like I needed to be fully present for them, and I would sacrifice so many parts of myself for that person. And then we get mad when they don't reciprocate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that part right there.
Speaker 1:This is what I want to talk about because I think about it early in my parenting, like I'm so serious, like I think about you know me parenting my older daughter is definitely different than I'm parenting the three younger ones now, I mean, she's about to be 25 at the end of the month but I think about even our relationship and me parenting the best way I know how, early on, and not recognizing these other issues that I had, I just felt like, um, like I was so on her about everything, like everything had to be perfect, and I remember her telling mom we don't have.
Speaker 1:When she got older, she was like I feel like you just created a personal lifestyle and I didn't know what that meant. At first I was like a personal lifestyle, but now I think about it constantly and I think about how I was parenting her. I was parenting her out of fear, anger and hurt, right, and I was so afraid that if I didn't do any, if I, if I wasn't on her the way I was, or if I didn't um communicate with her the way I did, that, she wasn't gonna love me.
Speaker 1:I did the same thing, yeah, with my son, absolutely, and I think, you know, that's one of the reasons why our relationship what it is now, our relationship still needs some healing, even though I think about I was a mom that made sure everything was straight. I, I took care of her, but at at the same time there are some of my pain that's on her and I do recognize that because of just the lack of right, yeah, and. But I think about often and I parent the three younger ones totally different, but I do some of those tendencies still come up and I have to check myself because when they don't like I said, sometimes I get upset. And when I get upset it's like because if I'm doing all this for you, right, yes, if I'm taking care of you emotionally, physically, safety, everything I'm doing everything and the least that I ask you to do is to do your chore. And then, when you don't do your chore, to me that's a sign of disrespect, that's how I take it right.
Speaker 1:And then I go off Like I'll say it for a couple times and then all of a sudden, two or three weeks later, I'm livid. So I'm in the kitchen having adult temper tantrums, like I'm throwing pots and pans around. I ain't swinging them at the kids but I'm throwing them around in the kitchen Like, hey, I mean, they better run. It's like, nah, I ain't swinging at them, but I now think about it. It's like you owe me because I've done this, that and the other and that's not really how we should be parenting Right. Our kids are not. We don't own our kids. First of all, we don't own them and we're responsible to raise them. But the older in parenting I'm 25 years deep in parenting now and the more I look at it and the relationships with difference between all four of my children and I'm recognizing that I have this thing where, because I do this, I expect you to do something else and when it doesn't happen, I'm upset. Then you're upset.
Speaker 2:I feel like you're disrespectful. And then you have these people that are like well, I, you know you hey.
Speaker 1:And not realizing they're children though Right and it ain't that deep and it's not that deep, but because of the scars that I have Right and felt like you know, I've done something for people so much and when they don't do it in return, I definitely feel disrespected. But we, a lot of times adults is one thing, but when you start treating your children like that, why would you like? My daughter, the one that's just turned 18, is grounded in the need to control. It's a control issue and I didn't know that, like she said to me, it was like a control thing. Back for she was like well, why do you view that as disrespectful? Because it is like and I couldn't really explain to her why I felt that was disrespectful, that you didn't do your chore and so I just was like because you didn't do this and you didn't do this and I did this and I did that and it really woke me up. Like you know, you have some serious issues and I learned over time like I'm still healing from that to make sure that even now that they're 16 and 18, that I'm still parenting in a way where I don't want them to have these habits growing up. I don't want them to think when my daughter said to me, the one that's 18, and I had asked her something about her. Like you know, I'm well put together. I like to go out, I like to like I'm well put together, but you don't have no bling shoes. I know no bling shoes today.
Speaker 1:Okay, so my daughter had got dressed and she was going somewhere with me and I got really upset, like why do you look like this? Like why are you dressed with a wrinkled shirt? And you didn't iron your clothes. And she was like well, what's the big deal? I'm like I didn't raise you like that. I didn't like that's not. She was like I said I showed you how to do better. She said you didn't show me. I'm like what? She iron my clothes, pick my clothes out, pick everything out all the way up until now, and now I have to do it on my own. I don't know how to do it or I don't feel the need to do it. And I said that's control. Like I literally was controlling all these years. And then you get into like overcompensating in your relationships.
Speaker 2:You know when you have those codependent traits and I did that a lot with you know other family members children where I think, because I was, you know, a teen mom, you know.
Speaker 2:So I wasn't, let's face it, I wasn't there in the way that I would have liked to really be there for my son, because I was young and I was in survival mode. Right, I'm trying to basically trying to make it, but the thing is I found that I was overcompensating in other areas of my life, like for other people, and it wasn't until my son and I actually had a conversation because our relationship was, you know, very strained about it, because he that bothered him, and I didn't know that at that time because the way I viewed it was, his needs were met, right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, his needs were met, but it was someone else that had children that and their needs weren't really met, and so I was pouring into them because I saw them as being more needy, when really the reality is.
Speaker 2:a lot of that time and effort should have been for my son.
Speaker 1:And they recognize that, and we don't. And they recognize that.
Speaker 2:And let me tell you something. They repress it. It's there and, yeah, like I was surprised because I thought, you know, cause we always had, you know, my son and I always had been able to really communicate, you know, effectively, and I just never imagined that those were things that he was dealing with and how he was feeling. Children are so impressionable and remember when we talked before about abuse, how children, their ego can't process that if an adult abuses them or is mean to them or, you know, just really neglects them, their ego can't process that there's something wrong with that adult, right? They think, no matter what you tell them, children think that they have the problem, right, that something is wrong with them. You can't. I mean, you know people have know, sent their kids to therapy and everything and yeah, but it takes a long time to for them to realize that if an adult mistreated them that it wasn't their fault.
Speaker 2:So you take that and you combine that with people telling you you know nothing but negativity about yourself. You know for so many years like, um, it just makes you feel very unworthy, you know, you feel unloved and you don't believe that you're a good person, and while a lot of times you don't admit it until you can really get to the core. It's affecting you and it's driving you. Those thoughts in your subconscious mind are driving you and it's a part of how you show up in the world and how you show up for other people and especially in your relationships, because you think you're not enough. You think you're not enough. Yeah, do you really do believe that? I was always told I remember like I would be around people that I hadn't seen in years. Right, and they would just be like you were so bad. All I ever was told was how bad I was. Wow, okay.
Speaker 2:You were so bad and a lot of this stuff. I didn't remember and I'm thinking what did I do, like the way that you know they're like, but you were so bad and you used to curse and you used to talk back and you used to. And I'm sitting here thinking to myself but I was a child, right.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's something about kids. I hate when people say like children are not inherently bad.
Speaker 2:So here we go. What was exactly happening in my life that I was responding to? Yeah? Right, yeah, absolutely what was actually going on in my life that maybe you don't want to be accountable for, Right? Because when children say children are acting up in school, it's usually always a problem at home. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, absolutely say children are acting up in school. It's usually always a problem at home?
Speaker 2:yeah, right, absolutely, I ran the streets and was a runaway and didn't come home, but not because I was out on the street on drugs, right, because I wanted to be with people that I felt loved me, right, period. Yeah, you spend your whole life just kind of looking to be loved back, right, you know. And so I remember I ran into a friend of mine that I had went to junior high with and we were talking. I was like, wow, we really like we, we've been through some stuff, you know. He said I said again, we were bad. Huh, I guess, because all I hear is you were so bad, you were so bad. He said, rhonda, we were lost. Wow, that's it. Yeah, we were not bad. Yeah, we were lost and that's what we were, and so, but my point is you have to watch the way you talk to children absolutely you have to watch what you say to them.
Speaker 2:It can be so damaging, because I it's again. It took me years to realize that I really for years didn't have self love and self worth. Right, and although it's funny too, because there was a time in childhood, because, again, like certain things you know that are traumatic, you do, you repress, but I can remember a time when I did feel loved and I did feel I had a great, you know, sense of self. We used to our, where we danced at because I'm from South Philly our dance school, basically we, we did our recitals at the Academy of Music, okay.
Speaker 2:so I so as a little girl strutting around on this big stage, I remember feeling like I was on top of the world and my grandmother used to cut up, like these little 90s and you know, play, dress up and everything I and I remember always feeling it. Then it was my grandmother like you know the relationship that I have with my grandmother who always made me feel so special.
Speaker 2:But what happens is you got to watch who gets to interact and engage with your children over the years, because I can remember that time where, if that pattern was consistent, I would have definitely had a stronger sense of self growing up and a sense of self worth Again. I'm so transparent about it and I feel the need to share it because I feel like if it can help someone at a stage in their life where you know they can, they really are capable of making that change and really really get into the core of what's going on. Um, I'm grateful for where I'm at, you know, in my life, but I, as far as being healed, like I told you, I feel like I'm definitely healed from, you know, the neglect, the abandonment and just just all of that. I wouldn't take anything from my journey. I would do it all over again if I had to, because I, you know, I'm happy with who I am. I know I'm I'm, you know who I am in Christ, um, and that this journey was for a reason. Um and my story. Basically, you know, I just try to use it to inspire other people because, like I tell my students, you can do this.
Speaker 2:I was kicked out of school. Okay, I was a high school dropout. I even went to, you know, the alternative schools. I said, oh, ms Rhonda, you rode the short bus. Yes, you said the short bus. I was on a short bus, that's what they said. I said, yeah, I did. You know, I was in fights all the time.
Speaker 2:And again, you know, mother at 15 and homeless in this place, in the streets Again, like I know, if I can overcome those things that you know, I'm like you can do this Right.
Speaker 1:You can do this and you said something. You said a lot just now, rhonda, I did, but no, you said a lot of key points and I'm going to try to go back a little bit. Well, I like. So I want to go back to the fact that when you were talking about your son because I dealt with this with my daughter, I think sometimes, because of our codependency or our need to please or our need to be needed, our need to be needed right we begin to help other people and our children see, that and they don't understand that, and they don't understand it, and I remember, you know I had my daughter.
Speaker 1:You know she would always used to say to me why are you helping them? They treat you like this or they treat you like that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I got that all the time.
Speaker 1:I'm a woman of God. You can't just leave people. You know I've had people we ended up calling my house. I felt like my house was like a shelter, because everybody ended up living in my house and with their kids, but I I felt like I was helping them. But even though they wasn't treating me well, there was still always drama with these people that I was helping. I felt like they needed me. And my daughter, she very smart she you know kids can say they like why are you putting up with this? This don't make no sense. And she used to always say to me she was like. I think that was that's another reason why our relationship was strained the way it was, because she didn't understand the fact that I was helping these people and why I was helping. But in return I'm thinking about it I didn't understand that I didn't need to do that yes you know, and even to now with my kids, who are a little younger ones.
Speaker 1:They even say mom, why are you helping? And I keep trying to teach them. You help people who are in need, but I'm also teaching them, and especially with the 18 year old. Now she's telling me about her friendships and I felt like this is so important because she was saying about the behaviors of her friends and how they were treating her and how she thinks that she needs to do this for her friends. And I thought about it. I was like I've been there and done that Because I'm going through the healing process of feeling the need to be needed. I'm able to teach her and say listen, that relationship is not well for you. Because I'm able to teach her say, listen, that relationship is not well for you. Because I said to her I said listen, if you, an 18-year-old, think that you have to hold on to this friend because this friend needs you, you're going to think that people need you the rest of your life or you're not going to be able to disconnect from those people who are hurting you.
Speaker 2:You won't be able to have boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we had that and she no longer has that friend.
Speaker 1:That's the one thing I wanted to say, because, definitely, our children are watching us and we think that kids don't know no better because they're kids, but they really do see that you're hurting yourself, you're damaging yourself, you're allowing these people to walk over you and then they become so angry at you because you allow this, like they don't like the other person, of course, but then they don't like your behavior and we as parents sometimes don't see that, because they're like oh, they're kids, they don't know any better, they absolutely do.
Speaker 1:And I think that sometimes we need to start listening to our kids like that ain't that person ain't right for you, they hurting you, I don't like you, so you hurt, and that's the one thing. And then the other thing that you were talking about was really um, you said a lot. I'm trying to tell you, I'm trying to filter it out. I should have took some notes with the conversation here, but that how it just, it just goes into other relationships and the fact that I know what I wanted to talk about the fact that you don't think people, we don't think that we are enough, so then we continue to do things to try to make us feel that we are enough, and that's part of their codependency, that's part of the fact that we're not sacrificing ourselves for others.
Speaker 2:We don't feel normal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I'm still processing. It was like you are not the sacrifice. Who told you you were supposed to be the sacrifice?
Speaker 2:I called a friend of mine a couple of weeks ago. He's kind of like my cause again. The codependent no more book again great, one of the best books I ever read on codependency codependent no more. She has another book, um, that came after that, I think, um, but it's called beyond codependency, and that's where you learn that you are a recovering addict. Wow, you are a recovering, you are a codependent. It is an addiction, okay, and you are in recovery, very much so, and you can fall back into those old patterns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it's funny because, um, I was talking to my friend and I told him. I said you know what I said? I do realize, while I say I, I'm healed as far as just the self-love that I have for myself now, the acceptance, my ability to treat myself well and live in my purpose, like the peace that I have Again, that all came from just my relationship being stronger now in Christ. And I know that because once I was able to feel his love Right and really know that I'm loved and I have favor on my life, and I know that I'm anointed after everything he's brought me through, that gave me the ability to Well, like, look, this is all the love that I need Right, basically Like, if nobody else decides to give me love.
Speaker 1:That part right there.
Speaker 2:As long as I'm good with him, I gotta be good with him if I'm good with him. And that's what kept me doing so much for other people. Because, you know, my grandmother was very giving and I watched her give. You know she would. She was the type of person even if she had food for her children, right she would still go to catholic charities and go to places and get food to take to other people, okay, that were too embarrassed to go get it themselves for their families, like that's. She just was a giver, and so I you know she'd give you her last, and so that's how I grew up. But that keeps you. You know, when it's toxic people that can't appreciate you and don't reciprocate, when really you're not even looking for anything monetary back from them, you just want them to love you back and treat you right. These are the people that you love. But it keeps you in that cycle.
Speaker 1:I had a conversation with a mother and you know, like all of us, we all kind of parent out of fear or something like that, particularly those of us who've had children very young.
Speaker 1:you know moms or whatever, and a lot of times we try to hold on to our kids because we don't want to feel abandoned or rejected, because that's what we're used to, right. So then that's how we began to try to just please our kids. So it was a conversation I had with her and she was saying that her daughter was doing a, b and c and I was telling her how she had to take a stand for that. Like this is not. And she was like, but she's not going to be happy with me. And I was, like your job is not to make your kids happy. Like and I'm learning that over time like we want to please people so bad that, to the point where, like, we damage people.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, we do, we damage and that's the enabler. Yeah, because I can look back at relationships and say you know what?
Speaker 1:I have to take responsibility because that person maybe would have got themselves together sooner yeah, if I didn't like I wasn't so busy trying to fix everything yeah, the fact that my daughter don't know how to pick out her clothes and iron her clothes at 18 because I did everything, yeah like that's crazy, that's damaging, like she's about to go to the marines oh, oh, I know what I I wanted.
Speaker 2:I was telling you how I had to reach out to my friend who is like, kind of like my unofficial codependent sponsor, okay, and so, um, I wasn't, I was falling back into old patterns but in a way. But I said to I really have to again, the work is ongoing. And he said what happened, rhonda? And I said, well, I said I'm out here right now. I was at the mall, I was in Nordstrom. I was just having a good old day. I was just out shopping, perusing the stores I take myself on dates all the time, you know and I just was hanging out and having a good time. But here's the thing I actually felt guilty.
Speaker 1:Oh talk about that.
Speaker 2:I felt guilty, because all my money is mine now. Isn't that something? Wow, because.
Speaker 1:I was so used to getting hit up all the time I'm dead serious.
Speaker 2:I was getting hit up all the time.
Speaker 1:I'm dead serious.
Speaker 2:I was getting hit up all the time I thought this is crazy. I feel guilty because I'm actually finally in a place in my life where I am the only one that's reaping the benefits of Rhonda's hard work and Rhonda's sacrifice. Okay, and I feel guilty because I feel like there's somebody. You were at peace, there was no drama. Oh, yes, yeah, and so.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy, and that's how come.
Speaker 2:I know like, yeah, I mean like I know that I don't want to be. I have no desire to be in a relationship at this stage of my life. Me either, I have no desire.
Speaker 2:And that's the truth, like again one day, you know. But I know I'm still working on myself. Yeah, you know. But I'm also in a very selfish place now. The pendulum has swung so far in the other direction now. Oh, okay, that's where I'm at, where it's like I really don't have or want to have to make time for someone else to be in my life right now. Yeah, to have to like and that's crazy, but that's where I'm at and I think that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the thing about seasons that you know life is always evolving and it changes and you know. You just never know where you're going to be from one season to the next. Like you know, I remember earlier in my parenting after I got uh, the word that so it's been about 14, 15 years, something, whatever.
Speaker 2:Right, whatever.
Speaker 1:When I, at this point, listen, whatever. No, but I used to think that I wanted to date somebody because I wanted a father for my children. I felt like I needed because I was married and my kids grew up in a household of their father and their mother and I didn't grow up like that. Right earlier in my years I did, but then everything changed and that's where I believe my life has shifted to the direction that was more hurtful for me and banned and a rejection because my dad ended up moving out of state. So my goal was to after that divorce, it was to really find somebody that can help parent, because it was me now being a single mom of two kids, but then my nieces who my sister and her husband passed away because they came from a house of a married family and then they didn't have any father in the house. So my goal earlier in parenting was to find somebody to help me raise this kid. Yeah Right, and then, but that's not my goal. I don't raise them all these years by myself now, like, so I'm not looking for somebody to help raise my kids with me anymore, like I was not somebody to to be the Savior, but really come alongside of me and have the same parenting style, that I had the same relationship with God spiritual, with things like that to raise these kids because I thought that that's what they needed.
Speaker 1:I thought that I was not enough to be a parent so for children by myself, right, I thought that I was gonna drop the ball and that was another reason why I micromanaged. It was in control, because I just didn't want the ball to drop. But now that I'm older and my kids are older, I'm not desiring any of those type of relationships. I'm not looking for you who got little kids. I don't want nobody to come raising my kids. So in life there's just seasons that changes and we evolve from it. Back in the day I was probably was looking for you to help me raise my kids. Now you better not bring your little kids. You better not have no little kids. I'm just not in that season and I don't need you to come in to be a stepdad to my kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's just not what it is, yeah, it's not, and again, it's seasons and it may change later on. I'm just so careful now because I and I'm really, I'm even to the point, like where oh, I just got something like socioeconomical status and all of that, like when I dated, like I didn't care about. You know who look. You work, you bring something to the table. Let's do this. We can do this together, but now it's different oh it's different now.
Speaker 2:It's very, very different. You know, I'm finishing up my doctoral program. I finally got. Irb approval.
Speaker 1:Finishing up the doctorate hey.
Speaker 2:There's that part and it's just. I am so like everybody has an agenda. I had remember I told you about my post-COVID relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I call it my post-COVID relationship Because when we were in seclusionlusion, in quarantine, you know, let's face it you know we couldn't be around here. It was a case where this was a disease that you could contract without even having to be intimate with someone, right, right, right. So we were isolated. So, yeah, a lot of people came out, you know, and got into relationships. And I feel like you know, came out, you know, got into relationships and I feel like, you know, I kind of I could have been taken advantage of in this relationship because really, what he did was he love bombed me.
Speaker 1:I don't even know what that means so love bombing.
Speaker 2:Okay, there was a time the way I was raised when a guy brought their his resources, that meant he was into you oh, okay, okay, let me tell you what they do now, though. What they do now, what they do now is when they know you can bring your own resources, they will bring their resources. They'll bring their resources. She's lucky, they'll bring their resources and then some yeah, and just shower you Okay, but that's to get you to really think that, wow, they really must be, he really must be.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, okay, All right, yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 2:And to basically cause. There is an ulterior motive, right, right, so there's salt in the mine.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2:You just have to be so careful out here, right, you know, because it literally seems like everybody has an agenda. But one of the things that I'm working on is dealing with that too, because I don't want to shut the right people out of my life, right, you know, but I definitely date more on my level now.
Speaker 1:Yes, you should.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was something that I never. But I'm going to tell you what. What kept me dating below my level for a long time was I was always very humble and very grounded. You know, people would always take me a lot of times for face value and assume yeah, but I've, I've always been very down to earth and the thing is I remember, um, cause all my friends were drug addicts, by the way. That's how you know, like the power of God, I swear, like most of my friends back in the day were getting on drugs and for me to never use and never and be around it. And these are the people that I deal with and that's why it's like God is so good and just has been so good in my life and just brought me out of Like when they say he reached down for you and grabbed you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you yeah, and pull gives me, yes, gives me goosebumps, um, but I know, like in my heart, that the whole time he was carrying me because the people that I associated with, but the thing was, I never judged them, you know, because that's just not my spirit. But I did realize when I got to a certain stage in my life that, okay, I'm going in another direction. These people are going to have me locked up.
Speaker 2:They're going to have you locked up, losing your degrees and everything I mean, I'm talking like in my early 20s, when it was that way, you know, but I felt like I was turning my back on them and that's the codependency. I felt like I was wrong because I walked away from these people. That I felt Because loyalty is one of my greatest virtues. You know.
Speaker 1:Loyalty is everything to me and you know I'm very loyal to people and loyal to a fault, have been loyal to a fault and that loyalty definitely, you know I think about when we talk about relationships and just living in general, when you're loyal and faithful, especially being a woman, woman of God, like I hold that dear to my heart so that will stop you from leaving a job that you're supposed to leave. It will, like that will stop you from in the relationship you're supposed to. And because you are that loyal person, right, yeah, and I experienced that as well. I mean, I was a job, I was at a job for 12 years and basically it's like again, I felt that the job needed me, like I brought so much to the job which I did bring a lot to the job, but at the same time, because I was so loyal and faithful and, matter of fact, that's what kept me in my marriage for so long.
Speaker 2:Yes, because I was like like loyal and faithful.
Speaker 1:That's what got me there. And then I had to wake up like wait a minute, you're not even who you are supposed to be being like that. So, um, you said something earlier again because you know you be saying stuff, and I told you I need to start taking notes, but, um, dang, I kind of forgot about it.
Speaker 2:I know I feel like it's so much, but no, it's it was something so much oh here it is here
Speaker 1:it is we were talking about, like relationships and being different, you know, having a partner and stuff like that. And I think right now what I'm seeing, it's not, I think, what I'm saying. A lot of um, single moms that I talk to they have this struggle where, like I was earlier, thinking I wanted somebody to help raise my children. So, because it's so pushed on you, marriage right now marriage is pushed so heavy that these women begin to settle for anybody who is bringing a check. It seems like they can be a father to your kids. In return, they're not even the person you're supposed to be with.
Speaker 1:And then that's where we get all this abuse from and all these other things that happen to our children, because we leave ourselves so open, because we think that we need A, b and C for us to be completed, not realizing that we're already complete. But when it comes back to what you had said earlier, it's about really knowing who you are. Like your identity is so important because if we don't know who we are and that we're belong to God and that we don't have to settle for anything less than what God has for us, we become open to any and everything you know I have they say that if you don't stand for something, you don't fall for anything. My thing is that if you don't stand for something, you're going to fall for everything.
Speaker 2:God just recently took somebody out of my life that I had picked back up picked up like a pocketbook.
Speaker 1:No that I.
Speaker 2:God had took them out of my life and I think it was like 2017.
Speaker 2:Yeah, had took them out of my life right and but again me loyalty oh, this person was there for me through this time and and just feeling like you know, hey, maybe I should reach out. And I had reached out I guess it was sometime last year the reconnection was established and I realized, let's just say, say that I should have listened to God the first time that God took them out of my life for a reason. And it turned out that they were just when people are clapping for other people. Right, they're in your circle, but they're clapping for other people, but they can't clap for you. Yeah, they're not for you, yeah.
Speaker 1:They're not for you, absolutely.
Speaker 2:They're not Because my people. Are you kidding me? I clap for people I don't even know, Right? I act retarded at graduation when my students are graduating. I just can't you know, and anybody's you know, for that matter, you know again. Just, I don't understand that and I and I have I've always. Somebody told me a long time ago she should never be jealous of somebody if you're not willing to do what they had to do right, right.
Speaker 1:I don't understand the whole jealousy thing with anybody.
Speaker 2:That's crazy to me and but the bible? What's the scripture? I don't know, I don't remember, is it in proverbs, but it's talking about anger. But then it says but jealousy, who can stand in that, like there's just no way? There's just no way. And it's hard because you know, especially when it's you know, it's people that you really wish, you know could be happy for you, you know could be happy for you. But yeah, someone also told me that they thought I was an overachiever because that was part of my codependent. You're a perpetual student.
Speaker 1:Oh, I heard that too, but it's kind of true a little bit too, and in a way it kind of is.
Speaker 2:But the reason why I go so hard is because it has more to do like. It has more to do with my kids. It has more to do with my kids. It has more to do with all the sacrifices that I know I had to make as a young girl and I was fortunate enough to be able to have mentors. That's why we say we need a village, even if it's not our family. We need a village. We need mentors, we need people to step up to the plate, and if I didn't have those kind of people, you know I would have been lost. But for me, I felt like I had something to prove, because I don't ever want my kids to ever think to themselves well, she made all these sacrifices and, yeah, she was young and everything, but what did she do with her life? You know what I mean, right? She do with her life. You know what I mean, right?
Speaker 1:so it's like I used to use my honestly as a. You know, growing up where you know, my mom didn't graduate high school and my dad did graduate, but no, like I'm still at about to be 44 in a couple weeks, y'all uh will still be a first generation college grad.
Speaker 1:Like I really am, you know, a first generation college grad and you know I went to school, became a nurse, went to technical school, but now I'm actually the first one to actually have be having a college degree. And I used to um, I used to go hard in so much to prove people that I am enough. But I don't even do that anymore, like being going to school is for me.
Speaker 2:I love it. I like to learn. I stopped doing that a long time ago. I'm a forever learner. I am a forever learner, I decided. My reason for just pursuing the doctoral degree really is just more about just I want to be able to, in my retirement years, be able to teach online. And in order for you to really be able to teach online exclusively, you know you have to have your um doctoral degree in order to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking in terms of yeah, long term but I used to and that's how I am Like.
Speaker 1:I love learning. I'm a forever learner, like I, you know.
Speaker 2:I just love learning and it's not.
Speaker 1:I'm not even just talking about, when we talk about, you know, advancing my nursing degree, but even leadership. Like I'm always in school, I'm always doing something, and early on in life, though, I did all that to escape me. I did all that to escape.
Speaker 2:So you didn't have to deal with your stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did all that, but growing in the Lord and really understanding who I am now as a woman of God, like who God has made me, like I don't seek these other things to hide who I am. I go up in the mirror and face myself listen, this is it.
Speaker 1:This is it what's going on but it took over time for that and and I think that's how my parenting has evolved too, over time, because I thought I had to be the superhero. I thought I had to do all these things and even in the process of still just healing from, you know, childhood trauma, um, so that I could even parent to the best ability, but understanding that there is nobody perfect and that, listen, at the end of the day, I'm doing what I can for you, the best I can for you, and I'm not going to. I told my son he was upset, um, because you know, his father's not in the household and he, earlier in his life, I was making him go see his father because he was a mom, I was control, he was a mommy boy, he was a preemie, so everything was me and him. And he had said, like he was so mad at me because I was making him go see his dad. And I said, listen, if you've got to be 30 years old in a therapy office because I, so be it.
Speaker 1:Because I, because, as your mom, the best thing for you is to have a relationship with your father and I forged that. I made that happen. And you, sitting in therapy office at 30. I'll eat that, because what I'm not going to do is say, okay, you don't want to do this and you're a kid, you don't really know. So I'm doing the best as I can as a mom and I'm not trying to please you, I'm just doing the best that I can for you and the right thing for you. So you're going to have to get over that. Listen, listen, I might even pay for your therapy sessions at 30.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, because at this point, right now, what we're going to do is do this. Yeah, but that had to be over time, because I had to know who I was, though, and I think you made a key point tonight of really understanding, not who people say you are.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Not who people want you to be, but who you are. Who, who people want you to be, but who you are, who God has created you to be. And putting in that work, because working to figure out who you are is a lot of work, yeah, but it's so beneficial because you're able to benefit people in another way, which you didn't even think about, by just knowing who we are. So, I think, you know, really dealing with the codependency, really dealing with the abandon and rejection, really dealing with those things, so that we don't continue to to have this generational, transgenerational thing where now our kids are trying to figure out what happened to them yeah, and that they have no, you know, have no boundaries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, boundaries are so important. There are emotional fences, you know, and we owe it to ourselves, um to have those boundaries. And yeah, I mean it's, it's change, you know, um, it's it's a lot of work maintaining um and not falling back into those old patterns. So I understand now. Remember, I told you how, when I went and found the book, it was in the addiction section. I'm like, I'm not an addict, you know, but the reason why is because codependency is very much an addiction.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so, knowing, knowing that and accepting it, I know that I know how to identify when I'm, you know, my empathy is really kicking in and it's like, oh, but I can make that better. And I was like that really kicking in and it's like, oh, but I can make that better. And I was like that I would have moments where I'd be like that with certain students too, where I would care more, um, cause I'm so passionate, um, and I just you know what really want them to succeed. But you know, I had to learn that too, they have to want it, you know they have to want it and they have to put in the work, um, so, yeah, it's, it's definitely, but again, knowing that those are your issues, that's important, so that that way you can go ahead and map out a plan to try to make that change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's so important. I think, you know, sometimes in parenting we just think that, or sometimes I don't even think. We think sometimes cause sometimes I wasn't thinking in parenting, but I think that we think avoidance is the best way to handle things and not really deal with our own issues. And then we wonder why we have these type of outcomes that's another.
Speaker 2:yeah, that happens a lot with um codependency. What happens is like you will really just pour yourself into other people and their problems, um, and trying to fix their life and help them, because it's a distraction, it keeps you from basically doing the real work and, like we talked about before, let's stop perseverating about what makes these dysfunctional people tick. Who cares what their diagnosis is?
Speaker 1:at the end of the day.
Speaker 2:If they're a bad person and you don't feel good, you don't feel valued or loved. Um, I had family members that used to love to exploit me in front of other people that love to talk about um. Oh, we're over, yeah. Oh wow See what happens. But again they would. You know you gotta be able to dis, to disengage and recognize. When people still want that to be your story, right, yeah, when it's no longer you know, don't let them define yeah, I feel like that people don't realize that we can.
Speaker 1:We can write our own narrative, right. I feel like they don't realize like, listen, you are truly, really in control of your life, like god has given us the power right over everything. So we really are control it. Control our life, um, even things that happen and arise, but our responses is the best way to how we deal with things. So, in essence, we really do control. Like we may not be able to all right, you get hit by a car, but how I'm gonna respond to this is is my I was what I control. So, for people who really want control, you really kind of can control your life right, you really can write your own narrative. Thank you, guys, for joining Panther with a Purpose.
Speaker 1:Again, we want to bring back the responsibility, nobility and beauty back into parenting, as we talked about tonight. There's so many different aspects in parenting we can go into, but for the most part, I feel like tonight we were really stressing the fact that you have to heal. You have to. Some of these things that we have on ourselves will really spill over on our children or anybody that's in contact with us if we don't heal. And and healing for ourselves, though like I'm not just healing so I can heal, that I could just be a better mom for my child. I want to heal so I could be a better person for me. I want to just show up for yourself is the best thing that we could ever do. So because if you can't show up for yourself, you can't really show up for no one else. So I think tonight we hit so many different things Um, as far as you know, codependency, narcissistic behavior, uh, addiction, um, all these things that people don't really talk about, cause, you know, here at Panther, with Purpose, we talk about what you don't want to talk about and really get down to the root of the issue, because unless we get to the root, there will be no good fruit, right?
Speaker 1:So I thank you guys for joining me. I thank you, rhonda, for coming back again. It's always an engaging conversation. We always talk about stuff that you know people don't really want to talk about, because I feel like we sugarcoat so much and pacify so many things. Honestly, at the end of the day, it begins with us and it has to end with us again thank you for the platform doll for just, oh, no problem.
Speaker 1:Thank you for all these balloons. I'm overwhelmed with all these balloons, um, but it really was a great conversation. I I really enjoy again, ronda, and I know you'll be back again um sometime soon.
Speaker 2:I want to come back and talk about my business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we got to have you back.
Speaker 2:We're going to talk about entrepreneurship and you know we got a lot on the plate that we need to have some of it.
Speaker 1:I will definitely come back Again at Parents of Purpose. Parents are the bows and our children are arrows. They will go wherever we aim them. They will land Eventually. It may not be today, may not be tomorrow, listen, maybe a couple years. Listen, we didn't land right away either. Right, and half of it is still not even there yet. I know I'm not there with God for me to go yet. It's still a process. But as long as we put the tools, as long as we put in the work and we, you know, send our kids clothes, not send them out naked, whatever they want to do with them, and have their way with them, as long as we do that for our kids, we will be able to um, our children will be able to land eventually. So thank you again for joining parents with a purpose. I am your host, donna janelle, and look back forward to seeing you next week at 7 pm. Bye.
